The Foreign Service Journal, June 2017

S eptember 1988: Defense and Security: Opposite Sides of the Same Coin A Conversation with Frank Carlucci Mr. Secretary, how do you think your Foreign Service career has helped shape your approach to problems that you face at the Pentagon? A large part of this job is engaging in a form of international diplomacy. Indeed, the line between Defense and State becomes increasingly blurred as the means of communication improve, a steady stream of visitors come through Washington, and we’re all traveling around the world. Just to take two examples. I spent most of today meeting with the new German defense minister. While we spent a fair amount of time on purely military and procurement matters, most of our time was spent discussing changes in the Soviet Union and negotiating strategy for START and conventional arms reductions. These are a form of diplomacy. Another example: When I was in Japan, my host at dinner was the Japanese foreign minister. So I have spent a lot of time on this job serving in a diplomatic role. In recent crisis situations, such as Panama and the Persian Gulf, State and Defense have eachmade policy recommenda- tions in accord with the other’s primary instrument of policy, with Defense supporting diplomatic overtures and State advo- cating military commitments. Is this apparent institutional role reversal becoming more and more common? First of all, you have to look at situations like Panama in their broader policy context. One of the reasons you have a National FROM THE FSJ ARCHIVES Security Council is that, in 1947, President Truman and the nation recognized the need for a forum in which issues of diplomacy and national security can come together because they are opposite sides of the same coin. When the State Department deliberates on a course of action or when they negotiate, they have to be aware of the underlying military strategy. Similarly, when the State Department talks of the possible need to use the military in any contingency, Defense has to look at it in terms of achieving the goal, its cost, the level of readiness, and what lives will be at risk. Obviously, in such cases, Defense expresses a view. So, there’s nothing unnatural about each department talking about the skills and resources of the other. You are one of only a handful of civilians with diplomatic experience to serve as the president’s national security advi- sor. Why do you think Foreign Service officers have so seldom held this particular post? Basically, the national security advisor is a staff job, and it’s very much a president’s individual choice. The question of why presidents select certain individuals as opposed to other indi- viduals is almost impossible to answer. There have been Foreign Service officers in many, many NSC jobs, including the current deputy national security advisor, John Negroponte. I doubt very much that any president takes into consideration whether somebody is a military man or a Foreign The secretary of Defense comments on the relationship between Defense and State. Frank Carlucci, a former Career Minister in the Foreign Service, served as assistant to the president for national security affairs before becom- ing secretary of Defense in November 1987. Carlucci joined the Department of State in 1956 and was posted to Johannesburg, Kinshasa, Zanzibar and Rio de Janeiro. In his long government career, he has served as director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget, under secretary of the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, and deputy director of Central Intelligence. In 1976, he was appointed ambassador to Portugal. This June interview was conducted by David A. Sadoff, a presidential management intern with the State Department, presently detailed to the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Export Enforcement. PERSPECTIVES ON DIPLOMACY AND DEFENSE THE FOREIGN SERVICE JOURNAL | JUNE 2017 43